Late last year I had a chat with Cain and we discussed the audience dynamic, returning to the stage with The Amenta, a horrific behind the scenes story from the Twined Towers video shoot and some of the harsh realities being in the music industry. Check it out, and read the full transcript below.

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Episode transcript

Annelise: So we met back when I was photographing Utopia Records’ Metal for the Masses gig back in 2010 and I didn’t know a whole lot about you guys then. It was the first time I’d seen the band with you as the singer and I was down in the photographer’s pit and you were giving me the most intense energy that I legitimately thought you were going to break my camera. 

Cain: Awesome

Annelise:I was just standing there, as like an early 20 something just being shit scared of photographing you because of this energy, that raw, pure emotion that came from the stage. And I wasn’t quite sure if it was a good thing or a bad thing, but I was rolling with it. And it was absolutely hilarious because you came up to me after the show and were just like “oh, I saw you down in the pit, did you get some great photos?” and you were just like the sweetest thing, and you were so polite and kind and I was just like, okay, you weren’t going to kill me. Fabulous!

Cain: My apologies!

Annelise: I think we ended up going to the Townie that night and having a bunch of drinks, with like a shit ton of people and it was so much fun. 

But I think that’s the first question I wanted to start with… is about that dynamic that you share, like you specifically share with the photographers, with the audience, and just sort of talking about what that connection is like for you?

Cain: I think largely it just comes down to the fact that I’m a massive fan and have always been a massive fan and I’ve just never lost that. I’ve always held on to that excitement about those connections. And you know when I see a band that I never thought I’d have the chance to see and um get to just kind of stand there and absorb everything that they’re doing and really appreciate all the different elements of what they put into their show. I guess when I’m playing, I’m kind of, it’s almost like I’m sort of playing to myself in the audience, if that makes sense? I’m not sure if that’s kind of the best way to word it, but I think you get where I’m coming from. Just recognizing the important… the significance of both sides of that equation. Um it is incredibly important, and every one of those connections is important to me. And that’s one of the things that keeps me doing what I do, is just the excitement about those connections. So yeah, it’s really sad that we haven’t had much of an option to make those connections in the last sort of eight years or so. 

We had one opportunity to do that in Tasmania at Dark Mofo earlier this year, and it was just a flash in the pan. And there’s no saying when the opportunity will present itself for us to really get back out there. So fingers crossed.

Annelise: So you’ve got a really close relationship with your fans online, and you’re quite active on social media. So what’s it like, being able to have that direct and immediate online engagement.

Cain: It’s fantastic. I love being able to have that kind of live call and response thing going with the bits and pieces that we’ve put out and getting immediate feedback of, how is this resonating with you, how is this resonating with you and just getting the wide variety of different feelings about different things, and it’s always very different. And then you’ll notice certain things where there’s crossover and you kind of go, oh shit, okay, we’re onto something here. This is kind of cool. 

And often it’s a surprise, things that you weren’t really banking on having much of an impact at all necessarily, and then getting a kind of really positive response and going, wow, okay, there must be a blind spot there, because I did not expect that to go quite so well. So, yeah, I love the fact that technology is kind of on our side in that respect, and it’s opened up those possibilities for connection with the people that are supporting what we do, which wasn’t the case 20 years ago, it was all letters in the mail and tape trading and all the rest of it. So, as much as that has its own kind of magic, it’s unreal. I love being able to have that connection with people.

Annelise: During the Hiatus, I can imagine there’s like 100,000 fans around the world who came across your band, and to find out that they’re not live anymore, that they’re not playing anymore (and I know how tragic that is, as fan myself) when you stumble upon this amazing band and you just think you’re never going to have the opportunity to see them live. 

So what do you think it’s been like, the reaction to announce that you’re coming back that there’s been a new album that, soon hopefully, there will be shows again, both from these new fans who have only just discovered you, and also from fans who have been around, you know, for the last 10, 15 years or longer, really.

Cain: We hadn’t really considered that too much before putting out the last album, I think maybe we didn’t want to get our hopes up too high. So we were kind of, in the mindset that we’ve been out of the picture for so long, that we’ve basically become obsolete, old news. Fingers crossed, hopefully there’s some people that remembered us from when we were relevant that will still be supportive of the new stuff that we’re playing around with. 

So to have um, yeah – like you say, people who have discovered the band during that time that we’ve kind of been out of the picture, we weren’t really banking on that being a great deal of people. So we were really blown away with these kinds of responses popping up around the place, whether it’s Youtube comment threads or whatever. The most random, just all these personalities, kind of popping up from different parts of the world saying, I discovered you, I discovered this album six years ago and I love this band. I’m so excited that you’re back!” and just thinking, wow, okay, awesome, cool. And they just kind of kept popping up. It was an enormous surprise for us because why would you? There’s no reason to think that that momentum will necessarily continue on without somebody, kind of putting it out there in people’s faces and that wasn’t being done. So, I guess hopefully that says something about, about the longevity of the stuff that the band has created.

Annelise: Yeah, no, absolutely. And I mean that, that is really just the power of social media and, and everything that’s there. You know, you can be gone, but you know, it’s never really, you know, you’ve still got a presence there online. And that’s kind of a thing that I wanted to ask as well, about that hiatus and how that was for you and just sort of looking at the evolution of your onstage persona… Going from the white contact lenses, the slimey, you know, the grimey paint that you would wear on your face, the chains, through to the leather, the gloves and then, well, the slightly terrifying mask that comes alongside the shots from Revelator. 

So how did that affect you, that time away and coming back to the stage with this new persona. What was that journey for you?

Cain: From the beginning, uh obviously, the band had been around for a while, they had something going on already and I was kind of the new guy. I think we all had the same idea that we can’t just kind of, this is a big shift in the band’s evolution, so, we should honour that and let, visually let that personality come through. We basically kept a degree of what they already had going. So it wasn’t too much of a drastic jump from what people knew of this, the previous live incarnation. 

Previously to joining, I had been bringing that, I’ve been really this kind of filth dripping streaked sewer creature for a while with my old band Malignant Monster, that was kind of, that’s how I was presenting myself before I joined. The Amenta guys’ first  impression of me as a singer was with Malignant Monster. So, they were kind of just like that really would work well in this band. Is there a way we can, are you keen to make that happen? And yeah, so, we did, and I kind of brought that aspect of my live visual to what they were doing already, kinda mixed the two a little bit. 

Um but then, yeah, through the hiatus a few years into that, we kind of started realising there’s no way that with the way that the sound, it is becoming so much more vast and fine, there’s so much subtle, subtle layers going on that we we can’t just come out as the same beast that we were when people saw us last time, because we’re clearly a different beast now. To begin with, the mask thing that I brought to the table was specifically for an album artwork concept. That’s all it was for, for a photo. Um and the location that I had in mind for this shot was just impossible to find in W. A. And I didn’t really, we didn’t have the resources to be able to fund that kind of, you know, for the sake of a photo, there are other ways of coming up with album artwork that’s um maybe less bullshit. So eventually, that visual sort of just, we just gave up on it pretty much.

But in the meantime, I’ve been developing, okay, well, the location’s a pain in the ass, but I’ll figure it out somehow for now, I just need this mask to come to life. So that was a whole lot of just researching and talking to different special effects artists, learning a lot. And yeah, and I’ve always loved that kind of work, I’ve always loved visual arts and uh sculpting and drawing. I was an artist before I was ever a musician. So it was really fun to have an excuse to just sink my teeth into some new art, a new art project. So it was cool, but at some point we realized this album cover idea is absolutely not going to happen, but I’ve got to do something with this thing.

The guys really loved what we developed, what I developed. So maybe we can put this to work with some other ideas. Um and of course, I was immediately coming up with ideas of ways that we could use this in a music video, which we did. And by the time we put the first video out, we kind of realized, I think this might be the, I think this is the band now, it wouldn’t have made sense to return to the stage with our previous visual, it just wouldn’t have made sense at all. So, um yeah, we’re all excited to move back to the stage with a fresh horror, I guess you could call it.

Annelise: Speaking of horrors and video clips. So… Twined Towers, please, please tell me that you had earplugs in, during that scene, during the filming. I saw those behind the scenes shots on Facebook and I was terrified for you. Do you want to tell us about that, or is that too…?


Cain: Yeah, no, no, no, I was actually surprised that those behind the scenes shots popped up so quickly because I thought from where I’m standing, I’m kind of thinking, you don’t want people to see, you know, the tricks behind what is going on. It will take away the magic of just experiencing it as it is, and you know, if people see that they’re just going to watch the video, it’s hard not, it’s hard to unsee the tricks, you know?

Annelise: I found it the opposite, like I watched it and then I saw the photos and I went back and watched it again and was like holy fuck. I just had a new appreciation and also disgust and like not towards you of course, but I was just like, oh, I just got really icky.
Cain: It was so funny because yeah, it was really, I was completely… my perspective was just completely incorrect really. And I actually, because Tim uploaded those and I think I actually messaged, I’m pretty sure I messaged him at the time, what are you doing? We just put this video out and you’re just giving away the magic, why couldn’t you just leave it for a while? 

And he was kind of from your a bit more from your perspective, I think this is more likely to kind of, I think it’s more, the video is more interesting when you can see what was going on. I was like, I don’t know about that, but, but it was hilarious that the response completely changed because from my point of view, it’s just what you see is what’s happening. I just expected anyone that watched the video was just going to assume, okay, yep, this is horrific, why would you do that? But yeah, as it turns out, the majority of people watching were assuming that this was just a post effects thing…

Annelise: Hoping… hoping that it was for you, on your behalf.

Cain: Because as soon as those behind the scenes shots got uploaded, all of a sudden there was this big influx of response, of people sharing the video and there’s all sorts of conversations happening about it and I’m just going, why, why now? How is… really? But as it turns out, it’s because no one thought that I was stupid enough to actually have four kilos of maggots tipped on my face. So, surprise! But yeah, so what was the question?

Annelise: Did you have earplugs in?

Cain: I didn’t actually need earplugs because my ears weren’t actually exposed. They were, they were kind of covered, sort of thing. The tricky part was my nostrils, which I did have, I actually made some custom nose plugs, like molded to the inside of my nostrils. So that if I’m gonna have something to stop maggots from crawling into my brain, I’ll need to make custom ones that can sit in nicely and do the job. So I had to fuck around, yeah, pain in the ass. But I got there and had them ready to go because the video starts and ends with my face being completely covered. So and then yes, so the sea level of the maggot starts off out here and then slowly sort of recedes down and they drip away, and then at the end the level rises and they cover me up. So I knew that I’d need to have something to stop them from going up. So yeah, I put the nose plugs in, but I had no idea how strong black soldier fly larvae are. Their heads are like these very sharp, very pointy, really strong little things that you can just feel them… 

Annelise: *making squeamish noises* Cain: like moving their way up there. They’re fighters. They really just, they’re machines. I’ve always kind of been fascinated by maggots, just these perfect machines that they’re amazing. Um… So there’s always been a kind of a fascination about them, but fuck, you just don’t know how strong they really are until you’ve got six of them trying to force their way up your nose.

Um but yes, so they actually managed to work their way past the, the plugs and you can feel them sort of just pushing their sharp little heads against the walls of your sinuses and working their way further and further along, while I’m just trying to focus on doing a good lip sync and remembering the lyrics to a song that I’ve been, fuckin’, I’ve just spent 7/ 8 years recording. So you’d think I wouldn’t have to think about it, but it seems that when you’ve got four kilos of maggots on your face, sometimes you get a little bit… you forget, you forget some of these things. So, um yeah, I’ve got a guy holding a lyric sheet over here as a reference for if I get lost, and I’ve got, you know… it was a unique experience. 

The original concept for the video was for it to be a one shot clip. So in my head it worked, but there were a lot of, there were a lot of factors that would have needed to be on our side for that to work, and we were limited to resources and time and all sorts of things. So we basically got what we could and then went, okay, we’re going to have to figure out how to turn this into a music video now because it’s not going to work as a one shot thing. One of the things was, that it was very difficult to get a shot of me singing the song from start all the way through to the end without interruptions because the song goes for fucking over eight minutes and when you’ve got maggots trying to work their way up your nose, eight minutes is a really long time. 

Annelise: I can imagine. 

Cain: So I’d kind of get about halfway through and then notice that they’re kind of at this point of no return where I should probably break this now and get them out. So I kind of just have to kind of wave and go, all right, hang on, we’ve got to sort this out and then I’m blowing my nose with tissues and just checking to see how many maggots are coming out and then just taking five just to see if I can notice any movement going behind in my sinuses. 

Annelise: Oh my god…

Cain: I think, I think I’m okay. I don’t think there’s any left in there. I’m pretty sure they’re all gone. Hopefully…

Annelise: I’m just having like, this really typical squeamish girl response to all of this.

Cain: Hahaha awesome. It’s all worthwhile…It makes it all worthwhile. They’re the reactions that really make it worthwhile.

Annelise: I read a comment, someone was like, yeah don’t eat while you’re watching it. And I was like, yeah nah, I’m fucking glad I did not.

Cain: Uh yeah, it’s all in the name of good fun. The first shoot actually, this is worth mentioning because this is quite comical. The first attempt at shooting the larvae face shots was a real brush where I didn’t, there was prep that I had intended on having done before the shoot and I was just all over the place leading up to that like madness. 

To begin with, I was just going to do the cheap option and cultivate them myself. And that did not go so well. So I was forced to seek alternatives and managed to find a place in WA that cultivates them for farms, for livestock feed, feeding to chickens and things. So they were really helpful. That was really cool and it meant that I could have a big batch and they just arrive in a bag of meal to keep them eating and keep them happy. 

Annelise: Did they take him back at the end as well or?

Cain: No, it was… this is the disaster. The disaster was these arrived on my doorstep and I was really keenly keeping an ear out for the the postie because this shit can’t be left in the sun because it’s fucking hot and they can’t be left in the sun. I know this from my failed attempts, previous failures. So but as much as I was listening out the postie managed to do a sneaky on me and just leave them out the front. So it was only when I just happened to go out the front for whatever reason and notice this big bag of maggots sitting in the sun with no idea how long it had been sitting there. So the first thing I have to do is okay, let’s just pick them up and just have a feel to see whether there’s movement in there. If there’s no movement it’s probably a bad sign. So I picked it up, it was roasting, roasting hot, like bullshit, roasting hot but there was movement. There was just solid movement. I can feel they’re still moving. It’s all good. I’ll get this in the shade, hopefully that’s only been sitting there for 30 seconds. Um but I’m thinking to myself, I’ve got to make sure that before the shoot, I’ve got to empty them all out, sift out of the meal to separate the meal from the bugs and get it all nice and prepped so it’s ready to go, which I did not get a chance to do. So it ended up being this mad hectic rush. My um garage has been growing gradually. The smell was becoming less and less cool as days went by and then finally I’m supposed to be at the shoot in half an hour, grabbed the gear, throw it in the car, race off to this shoot and I’ve arrived. 

I’m so sorry everyone, I’m late to my own fucking video shoot, pulling my hair out, trying to tie this all together. Just give me 15 minutes. I’ve just got to rip open this bag and sift out the meal from the maggots so we’re ready so they’ll look better on camera. I don’t want them all covered in, saw dust kind of looking stuff, so give me a minute and then I open this bag and just this enormous waft of death just comes pouring out filling this entire area. It was just absolutely reeked because it turns out probably somewhere between 50% to 80% somewhere I’m not actually sure had died at some point.

But everyone’s in their place, everything’s set to go. I’m not going to be the poor cunt that says ohh I didn’t prep this, right. So maybe we’ll just have another go some other time. You know, everyone, you’re all free to go home now. I’m not, yeah, let’s have a go. Hopefully we can,  there’s something valuable from the footage we get and there was and it was useful. So it wasn’t a complete loss. But it meant that the overall effect of that shoot was absolutely not what I had envisioned. We’d even scoop up, try and get a solid amount of the living ones to drop at the end of setting up the shot, dropped them on my face so that at least you can see movement. 

But that movement would last about five seconds because the first thing they do is burrow straight down under all the dead ones and there’s no more movement. It’s just me covered in shit and rot and mouthing the words to have fucking song, like just madness. That’s yeah, but we pushed through, we got some useful footage.

Annelise: And it’s a fucking great clip!

Cain: Yeah. So yeah, well I did end up contacting the the people that had sent those the larvae to me to just on a very last sort of just digging the bottom of the barrel, like hoping that maybe they might be able to sort of help me out and just give them my sob story and say hey, shit didn’t work out. Seems the postie might have left that bag in the sun and it’s really changed things a lot. I’m just riding just on the off chance that you might kind of feel some sympathy for me and I wouldn’t mind sending me some more. So they got back to me and said that’s… that’s insane. Yeah, how many do you want?

And I was blown away that they were so accommodating because they’ve got no reason to be, but I think they just kind of felt like, wow, what would you, why would you do that? And the very, at least you could end up with something that worked. Yeah, how many do you want? And so I went, oh well the same amount would probably suffice if you’re happy with that, and they just went, yeah, we’ll send it out tomorrow, no problem, you don’t need to thank us or anything, let’s just say good luck and all the best with that. So um yeah, so I had to hit up the, Garth Hurley from CRT films who was shooting to say, hey, I know that was a little bit um traumatic for you guys doing that first shoot, but is there any chance you’d be up for another round? This time I’ll do the prep, I’ll promise I’ll do the prep. And he just, his response was basically, well, if you can handle the idea of going back into that, then I guess I should probably just step up and yeah, if you can do it, I’ll do it again. So yeah, Cool. Alright, good. We’ve got a deal, go team!

Annelise: Yep, that is… I did not expect any of that. So that is a story and a half. So thank you for telling me, as squeamish as I was.Cain: Yeah, yeah there’s a lot of stories, there’s a lot of this shit, I just forget it because you kind of, one project is finished and then there’s another one that you’ve got to get moving with and um yeah, but it’s good fun when you know, there’s some little spark that triggers one of these things because it’s a shame for them to go to waste because at least someone can have a laugh at my expense if nothing, if nothing else.

Annelise: I’m sure they’ll feel the same way I did, and just thinking like holy shit, that is, that is a new level of commitment as far as I am concerned. So yeah, speechless, speechless. But speaking of that as well, I did see this incredible shot from Dark Mofo of you, just like ripping off the mask and it’s like this rageful release and it just looks really cool on that. But like, is it difficult to sing in the mask? Like how do you find that on stage? Cause I know the rest of the guys wear it as well? So what, what’s that kind of like, um, now that you’ve added it to your stage persona?

Cain: It’s definitely not something that I really prefer. Um it is, it’s tricky because yeah, you’re just blasting air into this thing that’s just holding a lot of hot air. So it’s… it’s not fun. It’s a credit to the other guys in the band for actually wearing them for the whole set, which I know is no, the amount of bands that have come and gone using masks as their stick is, you know, we’re not reinventing the wheel. One reason I tore it, I tear it off is because on one side… actually, to be honest, it’s really just the fact that I can’t perform 100% if you can’t see my face. 

Um and I love the effect, I love the… that surreal effect of these ghoulish humans in this odd sort of group, pouring this sonic terror out onto an audience. It’s a wonderful thing, but I feel like a lot of my performance is actually in my face and not just my facial expression. Um and that’s not, that’s not an ego thing, that’s not what I want everyone to see my pretty face. It’s, I’m so much of the expression of the music comes through in, in my face. So when you take that out of the picture and we’ve got this Michael Myers kind of deadpan thing happening as much as I love the effect. 

Were also missing a lot of other great work that’s just kind of going on, but no one’s getting to see it. So it’s kind of a waste. I like, I feel like I’m connecting more to a crowd when they can see my face or I’d much rather that be the case. I feel like I’m connecting to them more. It’s like when you’re wearing dark sunglasses, and having a conversation with someone or the other way around, you’re having a conversation with someone wearing dark sunglasses and you feel like you can’t really, you don’t, you’re not really connecting with them 100% because you don’t really, because you can’t see their eyes alone. It creates a kind of disconnect like I’m not sure where you’re at and there’s jokes that you might not recognize as being sarcastic or there’s that you miss so much. So, um, I feel like that expression is more valuable than the effect of the mask itself. So I didn’t want to ditch the idea completely. So I still walk out with it, but I wasn’t interested in the idea of that being a constant throughout the whole set.

I think it works really well that the other members do keep that, because it, like in the video, in the first video that we put out the Sere Money clip, this ghoulish character, kind of telling this story with these grotesque kind of henchmen smoking cigarettes in the background and with this deadpan kind of thing happening. I really enjoyed the way that that came through as I’d hoped it would in that clip and to be able to bring that kind of feel to the stage was a really cool thing. Really, really exciting change for us. 

But yeah, credit where credit is due to the other members, because it is shit to play, to play music, that’s that precise and extreme and be so kind of limited by this suffocating thing. So yeah, I really admire those guys for pushing through and committing. It was very cool. 

Annelise: It just sounds like a new level of just dedication to your craft. I mean, especially, you know, talking about the maggots, talking about the masks, like to put yourself through that, to give this performance, and even if you think that the mask does take away from the emotion and from those facial expressions, I’m sure it still brings a very different level of intensity to the audience.

Cain: Yeah, I think that dynamic was more valuable than just committing to the one thing for an entire set, because a few songs in your sort of, okay, I get this now.

Annelise: And what was it like coming back on stage for Dark Mofo? Is that, that’s the only gig you’ve been able to do since this year, or…?

Cain: That is the only gig we’ve been able to play, sadly. It was a great show to come back to, you know, for our return to be at such a fantastic festival was really perfect and I’m glad that it was, that the first show back was in Australia and at Dark Mofo particularly. It was strange in the sense that we’ve not played in the theater before, so, um that dynamic that we’re used to of the audience being, you’re basically pressed up against the audience for the show was completely taken out of the picture. So we’re now on our own with these kind of um, this big seated room, so new territory for us. 

But I think it was, it was actually kind of exciting just for the fact that it was out of our comfort zone. I think that’s one thing that all of us have in common and it’s, and it’s why we continue doing what we do and why what we do keeps changing and evolving is because we are, we do have so much excitement around the unknown and new territory and being out of our comfort zone. Discomfort is just, is a really wonderful thing. Um and it’s something we all really enjoy with music and why we listen to so much um difficult listening, kind of extreme music and want to find our own voice in creating experiences that take people out of familiarity and have that feeling of unsafeness. Like ughh where am I? I’m not sure what this, what this world is and there’s something exciting about being kind of having your cage shaken up and being taken out of your comfort zone. So yeah, even though there was that kind of some degree of disconnect because it’s a theater, there was an excitement there as well that probably influenced the way that we, the way that we composed ourselves for that show. So it was a really special show.

Annelise: So after the extensive touring both across Australia and internationally, and then now having been in isolation for so long, do you think you’re going to approach touring differently this time around? Like are there any things you’ve taken away from your experiences before that you either would or wouldn’t repeat or anything differently you want to do, coming back to the stage?

Cain: Great question things we would or wouldn’t do differently, touring wise… Not really, not that not that I can think of, I’m kind of stumped to be honest. I’m where, all I can tell you is that we’re all just as passionate about throwing ourselves back out there into that world. 

Would we do anything differently? Probably just being… I think we’re probably just at a point where we might be a little bit, a little bit pickier about what we say yes to. In the past, it’s always been very much, it’s been a lot more gung ho and kind of just throwing yourself out there, jumping on, jumping on things that pop up. I think we’re just at different points in our lives now where none of us can really afford to be, just kind of have that kind of reckless approach to just throwing yourself into whatever presents itself. 

It’s a little bit more ohhhh yeah, but how, how much difference, how valuable is this opportunity in the grand scheme of things? Is it, is it worth the rigmarole of actually doing this? Because expense is always the um… the biggest pain in the ass. The amount of bands that I’ve played shows with or toured with, or met along the way, that are artists that have have been um big names in this field for decades and decades, and it’s not that we, it’s not that I ever assumed that someone, that these people are in really secure well off kind of living situations, but I have been really surprised on numerous occasions with guys in, at that kind of, that kind of level that to discover that there in the exact same… 

Annelise: Still renting?

Cain: Still all sorts of things, like…

Annelise: Still paying off loans, all sorts.

Cain: Yeah, you know, stories like um and I won’t name names, but yeah, there’s artists I’ve kind of worshiped since I was a kid that you end up touring with them and then find out that, oh yeah, when I’m, when I’m not touring, I’m collecting shit from thrift shops like second hand stores and selling them on Ebay, trying to make a few dollars looking for kind of unique shit, buying it for bugger all and then selling it for a bit more. And that’s kind of just like a hobby thing that manages to keep the ball rolling until the next tour. 

What the fuck? Really? You’ve written riffs that, you know, alone should grant you not having to deal with this bullshit. Um because you know that the, the riffs and the songs or whatever um that are just, you’ve just influenced so many people’s lives over the course of 30 years or whatever, whatever it might be, how is this is just but that’s the world we live in, that’s the way that society is structured, it’s not supportive of creative arts in general. And there’s a very general statement and I know that there are organizations that put money towards trying to support artists and small business, but as an overall statement and overall kind of structure. It really is not, it hasn’t been in favor of artists for a long time.

Annelise: No, no, and that’s why I’m in marketing and I am not a musician. I learnt from my father’s experiences, I grew up watching that and you know, people just assuming that, you know, this is a beautiful house, you know, your parents own it? Fuck no, we’re still renting, you know, we don’t own any of this shit, like, you know, it’s just that, I don’t know, it’s funny from both a fan perspective and, and both for the musicians. It’s a yeah, it’s a really interesting conundrum. 

Cain: Yeah, and it’s a really weird kind of yeah, it’s a really strange thing because the more you’re… the more people are familiar with what you do and the more known the music is. the more people seem to have these false perceptions of who these artists are and some people kind of will even hold it against you a little bit, like um yeah, it’s a, it’s a strange thing.

Annelise: Yeah, I know what you mean. You don’t have to try and explain… 

Cain: Yeah. You know what I’m getting at. It’s a tricky thing.

Annelise: There’s a fine line of trying to explain it without sounding like an asshole and also… 

Cain: But yeah… yeah, it is what it is, I guess, you know?

Annelise: Yeah, it is what it is… Well, back to um less depressing things.

Cain: Cool, I’m in.

Annelise: Is there anywhere that you are dying to go to, like if you could tour anywhere in the world, where would it be?

Cain: I couldn’t say there’s any specific, I mean a lot of these well established metal festivals that have been around for a long time would all be a joy to jump on, but as far as places go, I would admit that I do kind of have a calling… Um I would really love to be able to play shows in Canada again, we particularly had some really amazing connections and, and responses over there. 

Italy is another place that I’ve got a real calling to return to. There’s a bit of family heritage somewhere down the line that I think is, there’s this funny kind of connection to Italy that I’ve always kind of had and we’ve, and we’ve had some really amazing again, connections and response, like just amazing electric kind of connections with people over there. I would love to play, there’s a few places in the States I would love to return to. We’ve never played, we’ve actually never played in Scandinavia at all. I’ve been to Inferno Festival a couple of times, but I have not actually played in, anywhere in Scandinavia and that’s something I think would be fun to be able to play shows over there at some point. At the end of the day… fuckin’ put me on a stage and whatever, just let’s go. Um yeah, no… I’m not particularly concerned about where we play, I just want to get back on stage so…

Annelise: God, I just want to get back in an audience. I just cannot wait till that day that I’m finally like, in a pit, just losing my shit once more. Like, I just cannot wait.

Cain: It’s funny, yeah, we’re in our own bubble in WA where we’ve…

Annelise: You guys are like, the lucky ones.

Cain: In some ways… Yes.

Annelise: From Sydney on the outside, looking in, you guys feel like the lucky ones, you know, gigs still go ahead and, you know, even through my work, you know, we can still put on concerts there and, and yeah, it just sort of seems like you guys have it a little bit better, but I’m sure it’s not necessarily the case.

Cain: To some extent, for sure. Absolutely. Um but yeah, let’s hope we can work this out and get through this bullshit at some point.

Annelise: Hopefully soon. But it has been an absolute pleasure speaking with you today, this evening. I know we’re in different time zones, so it’s nighttime for me, and probably early evening for you. I just thought I would check, where is the best place that people can find you online? How can they support your work, where would you tell them to go? What do you want them to check out?

Cain: If there is anyone that really, and we, I do get this a lot. Every, you know, every now and then there’s really amazing connections with, there are just so many incredible people out there who continue to surprise me with their level of commitment to keeping what we’re doing alive and yeah, every now and then we get this kind of energy from people. Like I’ve already got, I’ve already got this, I’ve got the album, um how else can I kind of support you guys? Like, I just want to be involved in keeping this going because I want to hear the next album, I want to see this band live. You know, some people haven’t seen us live and they just want to support us to make sure they get an opportunity to see us live at some point. 

So the best thing I can throw out there is honestly, number one finding us on band camp, um, and just going through there, going through the band camp page and getting involved, you know, go nuts, do what you can. Um, even if it’s just downloading the free shit that we’ve got on there, download it. If you haven’t heard it yet, download it all. Like grab all the, all the free shit that’s there, some of it is, there’s a lot of free content, rip it and if you like one thing out of anything that you dig up on there, you know, share it, play it to someone. So band camp is a big one for us. 

And also just just the, and this is really under… people really underestimate how much of a difference it makes actually connecting and following our different platforms. So YouTube, for example, following the Amenta on YouTube makes a big difference to us. Like these things make a difference following us on Spotify, there is exposure that we can at least get through that platform, which we might not have otherwise.

So there’s pros and cons of every, of all this shit, um but you know, there’s people out there that have kind of gone, oh, you know, to be honest, I don’t own any of your stuff because some young crew don’t buy cds or vinyl. Um so that is their… 100% that they don’t really, that’s that’s their world as listeners, so, and that’s cool, whatever. That’s all good. Um but yeah, every now and then a comment will come up about something like this and we… I’ve got familiar with with your albums, but I kind of feel bad because I just listen through Spotify and I don’t even have a cd player or a turntable, so I’m not just going to buy shit for the sake of supporting the band, just so I’ve got this thing that I don’t even use.

The best thing I can throw out there to anyone that’s in that kind of world is cool… Just follow us on Spotify, that would actually really make a huge difference. So if you’re listening to us on Spotify, follow us on there. If you’re watching videos on YouTube follow us on there. Um it’s not like you click that button and then you’re gonna start getting smashed with um Amenta ads or you’re not going to have… it actually just makes a big difference for us. So two best things I can throw out there is:

1. Check out The Amenta on band camp and just rip it to shreds and 

2. Follow us on whatever platforms you’re checking us out on. That would be amazing!

Annelise: Thank you again once more for having a chat with me today. It’s been incredible and hopefully it won’t be another 10 years until I see you in person again.

Cain: Absolutely! Let’s keep those fingers crossed.

Annelise: Fingers crossed.

Cain: And yeah, my pleasure, thank you so much for having me.

Annelise: No worries, thank you! See you.

Cain: Cheers, bye!

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